A day after Kashmiri Pandit councillor, Rakesh Pandit, was killed by militants in south Kashmir’s Tral, Kashmiri Pandit leaders and activists based in Jammu have called for an end to the political process in Kashmir and sought a “decisive battle against jihad”.
In the nearly four-hours long condolence meeting held online, the speakers spoke in a mix of English and Hindi. The conversation gives rare and unhindered insights into the thinking within the far right circles of Jammu and Kashmir. Here is the edited text of the conversation in the meeting.
Tito Ganju: Namaskar!
My heart is bleeding, I am shocked. The killing of Shri Rakesh Pandita of Tral, Kashmir is not an ordinary murder. It’s also not merely one more killing by terrorists operating in Kashmir Valley. All the news reports which have acknowledged the motivation behind the killing, including the taking of responsibility by a terrorist outfit operating there, confirm that this killing is a genocidal killing of a member of internally displaced Hindus of Kashmir.
It is very pertinent to recognise that those forces who inflicted genocide on the Hindus of Kashmir and accomplished almost a total religious cleansing of the Hindu population living in Kashmir are complicit in this killing as well. We all are aware that genocidal forces operating in Kashmir Valley have a record of numerous killings of members of Hindu community of Kashmir to prevent their return to the Valley. Sangrampur massacre, Gool massacre, Wandhama massacre, … Nadimarg massacre, then killing of Ajay Pandita, killing of Nishcal, killing of Mehra, and now killing of Rakesh Pandita are a continuity of a genocidal campaign which aims at stopping all possibility of return and rehabilitation of Hindus in Kashmir, thereby connecting all these massacres by a single motive.
Now, yesterday evening this killing happened. We received news that the killing has taken place, the response of the government is as usual not visible, at the most [there is] condemnation, some statement, but again no action actually, in the sense that desired action has never been taken by the state. The state all along has been a participant rather than actor in denial of genocide and this genocide continues.
Today, we pay tribute to Rakesh ji. All of our society’s senior members are here with us to pay tribute to his memory. First I would request Shri Sushil Pandit to express his feelings and I am particularly stressing more on the role of the state.
Sushil Pandit: Thank you Tito ji. Namaskar to all of you.
I have paid countless tribute to countless people since the last many years. All of you have been doing so [as well]. It has become a ritual for all of us, a mechanical task [that is to be done] whenever such killing of life is done, a jihadi murder takes place. All of us come together to express sorrow and console each other, support families, and then pent up frustrations pour out: what is the government and establishment doing…
The merciless killing of Rakesh Pandita is not the last murder. This is just the latest attack on us. I know that more will be killed, just as killings and collective massacres have happened before. This will not stop in the future either. So, we shouldn’t be in this illusion that if we keep paying tributes and mourn that it will pass by the blessings of some goddess. We are ourselves responsible for this situation. When I say ourselves, I mean our entire system, our society, and political leadership. We are collectively responsible for this. The people we trusted and have given the mandate to run this system are not ready to accept the times that we are in, the challenges and enemies we are facing, and the crisis we are surrounded with. When they are not ready to recognise it, why would they do something about it? How will they find a proper solution to it when they are not ready to face the truth. Tito ji you have rightly said that this is a genocide, an ethnic cleansing. And this is what they are not ready to accept.
For the first time in thirty years of being lost and wandering, in February 2019 the then Home Secretary Rajiv Gauba, in a press statement issued a statement, that Kashmiri Hindus have been subjected to genocide and that is why JKLF [Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front] has been banned because they are responsible. That is just an exception in thirty-one years. That too said through a senior officer, written through his pen. [But] till date there has been no affirmation of it and neither has our political class accepted it. Doing something about it is a far cry. Before we ask questions to outsiders, we must introspect: Is the Indian system ready to accept our ethnic cleansing? Are they ready to accept that this ethnic cleansing is a result of jihad? Are they ready to accept that this jihad will not stop in Kashmir and will engulf all of India? Are they ready to deliberate on how to fight this jihad?
A very big security analyst has written that in the entire world, India is one nation that is fighting jihad with democracy. A democratic way of fighting jihad! The problem is that he is saying this after his retirement. He was a National Security Adviser, his name is M K Narayanan. And this fact was reminded to me by Ramesh Manwati ji. The system, the security advisers running this system, decision-makers sitting in top posts and their understanding… when they were hesitant to express this during their tenures, we can’t even think of something being done about it. After retirement, they write articles, analyses, and express opinions but when they are in service, when Bombay happened, you tied the hands of your own army. After the Bombay terror attacks, the head of the Indian Air Force Air Marshal Fali Major must have gone to our prime minister, security advisers, and said that my Air Force is awaiting an order. That we prepare ourselves for such opportunities and tragedies through exercises. We are in a push-button stage of readiness. Allow us and we will retaliate and inflict a cost and consequence on the aggressor [Pakistan] that will be unacceptable and unaffordable to them. But their hands were then tied. Did the security adviser not know then? Did he resign? No. He wanted to become the governor of Bengal. I refuse to believe that the people in power are not in their senses. But do they have the spine to acknowledge the truth and prepare the nation for that and take the steps needed in the retaliation. How many such M K Narayanan are there and what are their compulsions? How many National Security Advisers are there and can they not see? There is a flood of videos on Youtube of the incumbent before he became the National Security Adviser, where he gives a lot of wisdom on jihad and national security and what is to be done. It is unbelievable that it is the same National Security Adviser who has today taken the responsibility of national security and advising the prime minister and the government because nothing is visible in Kashmir. The 5 August 2019 order was an exception, what can be called a flash in the pan in English, a lottery that the nation won. [But] nothing can be seen beyond that because after that we are back to square one. All that advantage this initiative accrued and delivered to us has been squandered. We are in a worse stage than we were on 5 August 2019 because till then at least there was this fear and apprehension that if the state of India does such a thing then there will be an irreversible damage to jihad then it will be taken to its logical conclusion and therefore we must be ready to face the consequences. Today, they have understood and recognised that this is all hollow, it is just empty talk. There is nothing to fear, their delusions will never end as they have no capacity to make drastic changes. These hearts have no will. Those who, at a time when the ink had not even dried on the 5 august orders, brought the domicile policy, remained busy in wooing people like Altaf Bukhari, those who despite asserting this [Kashmir] is an internal matter invited foreign legislators and ambassadors in hordes to Kashmir with the hopes of receiving their validation and approval and a pat on the back and their certificates, what principle and vision… Can we expect them to straighten their backs to fight jihad? Every murder and half-hearted decision pushes us towards hopelessness. But I want to say one thing: the government’s alternatives to this drama have gradually finished, they don’t have the scope to run this drama for longer. Their own workers, organization, voters, and people have started to ask questions of them and this is why they can’t run this drama for long. They will either be forced to wage a decisive war agent this jihad or vacate their position. We are only afraid and apprehensive about the alternative when they vacate or are forced to vacate. This is a dilemma but as they say nature abhors vacuum, the alternative too will come up. And when the alternative is desperately and anxiously awaited, it doesn’t take time to present itself. We have seen history. Our role is to keep up the pressure, and we must continue speaking truth to power however unpleasant it is, however bitter it is, and how much ever it may cost us. We must not be afraid of speaking truth to the powerful. Because if we also engage in whitewashing, we will not leave anything behind for our children. This is a big responsibility for us, to be steadfast in our capacity with defiance and resistance and the ability to speak truth. There is no other way. We will have to keep doing this. I have taken more than the determined time. I apologise for that. I pay my tributes to Rakesh Pandita ki departed soul and pray for god to give the strength to his family to bear this killing, for all our colleagues spirits to remain high, and for all of us to work together with more vigour and perseverance to keep saying the bitter truth. I conclude with this prayer. Thank you very much.
Tito Ganju: Thank you very much Sushil ji. As you say the only responsibility of the victim of genocide is to speak nothing but the truth… We move to Dr Mahesh Kaul… We have seen that when the last time Ajay Pandita was assassinated, a group called The Resistance Front came up, today a People’s Anti Fascist Front has come up. The names have changed but the modus operandi has remained the same as it was in the 1990s. It’s the same situation, just the names have changed. So this is evident that a continuation of genocide and state denial is as apparent. What is your opinion about what is happening in Calley as well as in Delhi?
Mahesh Kaul: Namaskar to everyone and first of all tributes to our deceased brother Rakesh ji.
If you see, Ganju sahab, as Suhsil ji has said, this is neither the first nor the last killing of a Kashmiri Pandit or a Hindu in Kashmir. It is a persecution which is unfolding in a strange manner in front of us. Keeping this in mind I would say that this continued assault after 2019, when Article 370 was abrogated and we had thought that something would change on the ground before its half-hearted approach became apparent. The biggest mistake that I think has happened, looking at the security establishment and the national security grid, the problem in our politicians is that they have ignored the Kashmiri Pandit genocide. We have seen it in the parliament in the past when it was said by the Home Minister that there are these people [Kashmiri Pandits] who need to be rehabilitated. So the way this situation is unfolding, just the advisory of the Prime Minister’s Office (PMO) is under pressure. Now Kanchan Gupta, who is a good journalist and has a good hold on government establishment and policy making, he also ran the Niti Central and also was a correspondent of The Pioneer. He had tweeted something some days back which I retweeted with my comment. He said there was an official of RAW [Research and Analysis Wing, India’s external intelligence agency] who used to advise Vajpayee ji [Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee] who told him that I want to help you in Kashmir. Some days later we saw how he had helped. Kanchan Gupta says that Farooq Abdullah brought the autonomy resolution. The pressures under which it was discarded in the dustbin is another matter. Kanchan says that the PMO had this influence on them. Today he gave a hint, he said that he and someone else intervened and got it discarded. The point is that the nation where this happens and the security establishment works as such… Sushil ji said a good thing, that the incumbent National Security Advisor is a good specialist who is known for his views on jihad and understands it but what is this in our system that people write articles after retirement. I will talk about the official [that Kanchan Gupta was referring to], he is talking about Dulat [Amarjit Singh Dulat, former RAW chief]. He has written two books: ISI Spy Files and Vajpayee Years. In Vajpayee Years, he has talked about the political establishment and heaped abuses on the Kashmiri Pandit community but the ISI Spy Files [actually titled: The Spy Chronicles: RAW, ISI and the Illusion of Peace] book is important because it should give you an idea of how India’s system functions. He has written this book with Asad Durrani, the chief of ISI. It was published and never banned, no one even commented on this. How do two spy agencies, [one of] which is considered to be antagonistic, who continues a subversive war [with India] and our RAW chief writes a book with him. This is a disgrace! And till date the Indian parliament has never questioned this book. It should be said that what Dulat sahab has written in that book, what happened in Kashmir or anywhere else, does he and does the Government of India believe in it? If not then both books should be immediately taken to the court. Is this how a subversive war is carried out in Kashmir? Our heads hurt. And after this, sacrifices are sought from us? What sacrifices? We have been giving sacrifices since the 14th century and our brothers are being sacrificed even today. Secondly, there is another allegation against us that we were so many but didn’t fight [before the exodus]. I agree with Sushil ji that we should speak freely. [To those who made the allegations] you don’t know about our concentration (sic). We were three percent and we still retaliated. Today we will say this, we don’t want to demean anyone but in Bengal where there are more than 70 percent Hindus, there even today in 2021 a genocide is being meted out to Hindus and more than one lakh have fled to Assam. There were seventy percent Hindus, why couldn’t they retaliate? Our full sympathies with them. Compared to that despite being three percent, when Article 370 was there and the entire government was in the thrall of jihad [in the 1990s], we still saved ourselves. This situation is being made in the entire country. There [in Kashmir] you said it was a law and order problem. Our consensus is genocide denied is genocide duplicated. Today this has spread to entire India. Our displacement in Kashmir was given the name of migration, it was assumed that we are shepherds migrating to graze our sheep; and in Bengal, it was called post-poll violence. In this way Hindu genocide has been trivialized. The security mechanism in which such things are said, and the establishment does this and trivializes, there such things will happen to Hindus. It’s not just about Kashmir Pandits. Recently I was reading that if a Hindu marriage procession is proceeding where the namaz is going on, they will have to take permission before proceeding. This is a disgrace. This is a disgrace on our nation, to call ourselves Hindu. This mandate of 303 that has been given [to Modi and the BJP], someone told me is the 3-knot-3. I told them that the gun that used to be loaded and then fired. This [mandate of] 303 has been squandered. If you tell me what is happening these days, the people have been brought into advisory [councils]. Look on Twitter, those right [politically] or so-called nationalists are those who, till yesterday, abused nationalists, those from the BJP. They are today sitting next to them as media advisers and Twitter activists, these opportunists. They don’t take advice from those that they should. What they have also done is that they have co-opted more ladies. They have petted such pigeons. I don’t want to be blunt.
They used to abuse nationalists but today [BJP] considers them as their own. We [Hindu nationalists] were abused and threatened with [legal] cases on Facebook… When you keep such people close, it makes us ashamed to think of what will happen to the nation’s system. Those who used to oppose India are today a part of the Indian state together with the so-called nationalist party and are making government policies together. We believe that the Indian state is in conflict with the Indian nation. Even as there is a label [of Hindu nationalism] that is given on the outside, within [the system] all that shouldn’t be done is being done. They talk of Savarkar [Veer Savarkar, fountainhead of Hindutva ideology] but have never owned him up. His birth anniversary recently passed but there was nothing [grand] about it because when Savarkar talks of Hindutva, he talks about it in terms of a national security paradigm. He was not accepted by the mainstream [Indian establishment] because they know they will have to address the challenges of the frontier, the entire security grid of the county will have to be secured.
Savarkar had come to Kashmir, and to Jammu as well. I would like to point out that his birth anniversary was on 28 May. When he came to Kashmir, he was told that his discourse [of Hindu supremacy] won’t work here because Hindus are in a minority but, look at Dhanajay Geer’s official biography of Veer Savarkar, in it he [Savarkar] has said that Hindu is not a minority in Kashmir, they are a part of the Indian mainstream and are a majority as such. What does that mean? It means that we will have to be mainstreamed but that hasn’t happened despite the abrogation of Article 370. Behind the ruse of abrogating Article 370, what is happening through the backdoor is that they will give you [Kashmiri Muslims] a much better lollipop. This way national security is being influenced. Those who were in the so-called Left, so-called Congress, today they are advisers of the BJP. Those who gave their entire lives to ideology and nationalism are on the margins. This is what is happening with national security as well. I have cited an example of the book on Vajpayee years that Dulat wrote and what has been happening — institutions have been subverted. Look at the universities where such people have been appointed who used to do the work of jihadis. The biggest thing about national security is that the fifth column has been co-opted and told that your Hindus are with us, Kashmiri Pandits and Dogras are with us then what is your problem? They are more nationalist and in a better post. It’s a cost-benefit war. It’s a deceptive war and there is a Ravan fighting in front of you. Wars are not won this way. First they abdicated [their responsibility] from Jammu and Kashmir, now they are abdicating from the entire nation. I fear we shouldn’t go the Russian way, how Perestroika and Glasnost was done by Mikhail Gorbachev. We shouldn’t go that way. The nation should wake up. They are delusional if they think they have won the mandate for law and order or development, it was a mandate to resurrect the Indian nation and [to bring about a Hindu] renaissance. People thought that a mute baba [referring to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh] was in power and maybe now silence will be broken and the nation will be saved. But we don’t know if we are proven wrong but from what it seems and how the situation seems, we wonder if there is an illusion in front of us? Now that we see on the ground, regarding Jammu and Kashmir, Hindu unity is being broken. In Jammu, there were attempts to create an opposition to the Kashmiri Pandits so that there is a vertical split in Hindu unity. Recently, a tweet went viral of a little girl from Kashmir. It wasn’t a tweet, it was a video in which the little girl, of five or six years of age, whether it was a script that was given to her or what but the intention is that there is a lot of burden on children. So I responded differently to it, that this has become a way wherein a small kid, an innocent child, says something and on that the LG [Lieutenant Governor] office tweets that we have taken note of it and that the workload will be reduced. But look at us, in the 1990s when our kids in the Kashmir University [but having migrated to Jammu and elsewhere] didn’t get their degrees even after six years. Even today those who are pursuing their B.Ed don’t have their degrees. To bail out stone pelters a kid was put forward because the month of June and summer are approaching and the Amarnath Yatra is about to begin, to ease them of online classes so they can throw stones. Have you heard the voice of any kid of Jammu? How many of our people were handicapped in the Amarnath agitation [of 2008]? Did they enquire about them? Did they enquire about the traders who put everything at stake for the nation? It didn’t happen even today. There is a premium for separatism, fifth columnists, and jihadis in Jammu and Kashmir and humiliation for Indian nationalists, who are chosen and targeted.
Who will guide national security? Your national security is guided by subversives and when it is put to implementation, its results are wrong. If you administer the wrong medicine there will be a side effect and it is in front of us. Until the insulation in PMO is not fixed, there will be no changes in the national security grid. Today, I say that nobody understands jihad and its levels better than a Kashmiri Pandit because we have been suffering it since generations. We are the practical exponents of understanding the nuances of jihad. What they [Muslims] do when they are in a minority, what they do when they get a little more power, and what they do when they get everything. When the merciless killing of [Rakesh Pandita] happened, there was a tweet by our own brother, I won’t name the person but who I say has been co-opted, saying that this has happened before also with sarpanch Ajay Bharti and those who work on the ground, like the 1,800 – 2,000 Kashmiri Muslims. They have also been killed in the last thirty years. But don’t see it that way. We must accept that there is a communal problem in Kashmir. It has to be accepted. We need to work more on our own people. And these are the people who represent you on television channels, pushed to the fore to defeat you in the fight. Until this national security paradigm is not changed, and no book gave me an answer to this, I have read both books, the one written together by ISI and RAW chiefs, about what will happen to the nation’s national security? I feel ashamed. I pay my humble tributes to Rakesh ji and those who were killed in 2008 [violence in Jammu], and Bharti ji as well… This is a continued process of genocide. Even if one of ours is killed, it is our loss because we are already on the margins.
We are refugees in our country…
…Our work is to enlighten the country and we are doing that. And the country should understand that despite being three percent of the entire population, Kashmiri Pandits are working towards strengthening national security. It is ironic that a minority is doing this. Every Kashmiri Pandit is a national security adviser because they know what jihad is. This is why we don’t need to take lessons from anyone else. They are destroying the nation and to save from that, Hindus must unite. This is a fight against rebellion. The same happened with Jammu as well. Jammu is the Kurukshetra [the mythological war mentioned in Mahabharata] and we are all here, not in dormancy and are fighting in the field. Whether they are POJK [Pakistani refugees] or people of Jammu, we are all grateful to them but not only that, whenever there is a discrimination with Jammu, we have to stand with them. It is not the Dogra’s fight alone… If we have some experience, we must teach them that to take this fight [against “jihad” ] forward. We are [already] winning and we will triumph. But we will not tolerate any merciless killing of our people. At that time [of exodus] we didn’t have social media but the time has now come that the entire India’s Hindu must awake. I am deliberately saying Hindu because the rest seem to me as the fifth column
Tito Ganju: Many thanks Mahesh ji. You have spoken on two important issues: separatism has a premium and second that nationalists are being humiliated…
With us is also Ankur Sharma who is chief of Ikk Jutt Jammu…
Mahesh ji said that separatism has a premium but nationalists are humiliated. The second important thing that he said is that Kashmiri Hindus have first hand experience about jihad, so we have to stand together with Jammu. He said it is our responsibility to share experiences to fight this war. Are you convinced with this and how do you pay your homage to Rakesh Pandit ji.
Ankur Sharma: Namaskar to you and those who are watching us. First of all I would like to pay tributes to the deceased soul who became a sacrifice to jihad. I pray that god gives the family the strength to face this situation.
I fully agree with both observations of Mahesh ji. In the political structure in Jammu and Kashmir in the last seventy years, the nationalists and those who stand with the nation and those who speak out against jihad are second and fourth class citizens. An institutionalized process is incentivizing separatism and nationalism and those standing by the nation are squeezed out from all sectors of polity and decision making. The problem in Jammu and Kashmir is of jihad. And in this fight… the most important thing is that India’s parliament call the problem by its name. Let us first call the problem by its real name. Why do you put veils because those who are fighting this war are not. Why are you apologetic when those who are fighting this war aren’t? Why are you covering up, obscuring their point of view? I think the first requirement is that what happened in Kashmir, more precisely in the later half of the 1980s, should be named as jihad by the Indian parliament and jihad as a war form should be described so that a narrative is built in the country. The armed forces, security forces, and policy analysts should also take this forward. The shortcomings on the PMO level and Indian state have been described well by Sushil ji and Mahesh ji, I fully agree and won’t repeat that. I will try to focus on the solutions. The massacre and murders on the basis of religion that started in 1989, 1990, and early 2000s should be official declared a genocide by the Government of India. The genocide of Hindus happened in Kashmir as well as Jammu. The entire process be declared as a genocide and the perpetrators of jihad, which also includes the Kashmiri society which at that time acted as a bunker for jihad and at some level and degree ensured their participation in the genocidal process, should be acted against. The politicians at the time who made such statements under the ambit of genocide as per the genocide convention, for example Farooq Abdullah and the separatists, should be acted against. Because the first step to reverse the genocide is the recognition of the fact that genocide has happened. With denial it will duplicate and further perpetuate and denial will take this genocide to the ultimate climax. This is why it should be notified and its perpetrators punished. After that a sense of security will come. Until and unless this is done, terrorists, separatists, mainstream political parties, and the common Kashmiri who stands by this jihadi ideology will remain confident that the Government of India and the political powers don’t have the resolve to change things. It is all about perception. If their perception is that the Government of India is not standing by their citizens in giving them justice for genocide, then they can take this process forward which they have in the last 20-25 years after 1990. Jammu is also again a target of demographic assault which is again a genocidal process on the people of Jammu, a state sponsored demographic jihad. Secondly, I think that Panun Kashmir should be declared at the earliest by the Government of India. As we know that Pakistan’s ultimate objective is the Islamisation of India. And in India’s Islamisation, through Ghazwa e Hind, the Islamisation of Jammu and Kashmir is the first process. Destroying sanatana Indic civilisations is the root of it and for that it is important [for them] to Islamise the Himalayas. So why not create a Hindu foothold in Kashmir to scuttle Pakistan’s long-term plans. So, I think largely the Government of India is failing on these policies. The policies from the last seventy years have been perpetuated since 2014. As far as ideology is concerned, Mahesh Kaul and Sushil ji have detailed the information and I will not repeat those. The only step is to declare whatever happened to the Hindus in Kashmir and in some areas of Jammu in the 1990s and the early 2000s should be declared as genocide and a law should be framed to punish the perpetrators. Panun Kashmir should be created and a decisive battle should be unleashed against jihad as a policy matter, that jihad is a war form and it has to be responded as such. After that, at some point, we will be able to say that Rakesh ji’s murder is the last one, otherwise these murders will continue.
Tito Ganju: Many thanks Ankur ji. Ankur ji briefly told us what the solutions are… First the recognition of genocide and then creating a geopolitical foothold in the hinterland, and also strengthening the Shivaliks which is in Jammu, and the third which he said is to unleash a war against jihad because jihad is a war form in itself. A strategy to fight as per a war.
With us is Nancy ji, our senior leader of Panun Kashmir who has been active in politics for many years.
Nancy Koul: Namaskar.
Tito Ganju: Do you agree that this is the way? To recognise genocide, create a geopolitical foothold Panun Kashmir in hinterland and accept jihad as war form. What is your view and how do you pay your tributes to Rakesh ji?
Nancy Koul: From me, my family, and on behalf of Panun Kashmir, I pay heartfelt tributes to Rakesh ji. I have known his family for 38 years. His father’s name was Shyam Lal, the family was very gentle, sober, and god fearing. I was saddened when I heard he was shot yesterday because there are two Kashmiri Pandit houses in Tral where he had gone and was killed… His father was very helpful to anyone who went there on posting but I don’t know how Rakesh got trapped in politics. Anyway, it’s god’s will.
Your question is whether Panun Kashmir should be. There is no way other than Panun Kashmir for the government. The bill that we gave to the Prime Minister was stalled because of Corona but that bill is these days with the Home Ministry and they are discussing it. I have full hopes that Kashmir’s situation will not improve till Panun Kashmir isn’t created according to our marg darshan (guidance). No matter how much Sadbhavana the Governor sahab does, even if the army tours [Kashmiris] all across Hindustan or gives them jobs in big companies, Kashmir will still not improve without us. They have made many mistakes, I agree, but our people are also at fault Toto ji. On [the decision of] bifurcation different parties said different things, we shouldn’t do that at this crucial moment. We have been homeless for the past thirty years and we still don’t understand why we should be subservient to anyone. We should work with full heart and passion for Panun Kashmir which is a one place settlement.
I give you all my blessings and thanks for the work you have done during Covid-19. Your efforts are being praised by the Government of India and even the RSS and other people are also praising that you have started from zero without an NGO, Panun Kashmir [organisation] isn’t an NGO… You have collected funds from your own people to work. For that I send blessings and thanks to all. I have one request that we all together make a resolve to take Kashmir by fight if they don’t give it straightway, be it if we have to go on the roads, to Jantar Mantar [in New Delhi], or bother the Prime Minister. We have to do it however.
Tito Ganju: Thank you Nancy ji for your blessings. We have with us Lalit ji…
Lalit Ji, one more killing, whenever such a killing happens it takes us black to 1989. We have to relive all those pains in a flashback, and it happens after every interval. Till how long?
Lalit Ambardar: My understanding is that, and I believe all will agree, that this is a genocidal persecution that began seven hundred years ago, that is ongoing even today. It was this seventy years ago, and forty years ago as well. Then it was a final assault, as per genocide terminology but it wasn’t complete. And everything that is happening in intervals is in continuity. Some months back they killed Ajay Bharti Pandita and now this. Again and again they are trying to give you a message. My problem is that what those jihadis protagonists and their masters in Pakistan, and collaborators inside Kashmir are doing isn’t surprising. What is surprising to me is that successive governments in Delhi doesn’t realise it. Why are they trying to be strangers? I have been to several news channels before coming here. Even there it is said that terrorism has no religion. Arey. Seating Lalit in front of you, you are saying that terrorism has no religion? And mind it, they call themselves right-wing nationalist channels. What narrative is being run? Rakesh Pandita’s killing isn’t an ordinary killing. His blood is on the entire Indian system and secular system. What was Rakesh Pandita doing there? When I was at Times Now during the day today, they were showing a byte of Rakesh Kaul who has been the president of the Kashmiri Samiti in Delhi. I tell them their number will also come some day. Today Rakesh was himself saying that look we live in Jammu but the work we do, we do in Kashmir. What intellect is this, what politics is this that the people who were removed from there themselves or their parents were pushed out thirty years back, today they are being sent back to those places and employed to fix the drains and gutter and build roads and schools. We are living in exile in Jammu. Thirty years ago Jammu’s Dogras gave us shelter. I am saying this at every platform and want to say it again. If our resistance still exists in exile, it is because we have a home in Jammu and for this we must commend the Dogras of Jammu. We are sharing with them the municipality of Jammu, which has always been limited. We know that Jammu has always been discriminated against. Whatever limited municipal services we share but contribute to develop Kashmir, who is making us do this? I want to mention that the 5 August decision was a historical and momentous decision that will be written in golden words in history. It will be written that a king had risen [to power] in India, a Hinduvadi raja whose Home Minister was also Hinduvadi. They together, on 5 august 2019, removed the jihadi’s pan-Islamic and Pakistani ecosystem on Indian soil by abrogating articles 370 and 35a but what has been happening after that? They are busy reversing their own historic steps and for this I don’t understand should we pull our hair or theirs. We are not against the party but only indulging in creative criticism (sic). Now what they did in Sheetalnath Mandir on Navreh, I am saying this to everyone in their shakhas to their face, it was not an empty mandir, it was a centre of historical resistance of Kashmiri Hindus. You desecrated it with the celebrations and declared that now the return of Kashmiri Hindus has begun. Rakesh Pandita’s murder is a result of that. The system that governments before the BJP had started, to buy the Kashmir jihadi’s loyalty even if you have bow before them or the infamous embrace between Mufti Mohammad Sayeed and our Narendra Modi and the deal made after that, in which they made the [BJP] agree on all their conditions but never halted their own agenda and even today dominate the narrative… I also want to say that there are many in the RSS family, who are not politically ambitious, who agree with us and know that we are speaking the truth. This is why I believe that in our movement, those associated with Panun Kashmir since the start began with running the RSS’s shakhas in Kashmir, I tell them to open lines of communication. If they are ignoring our voice, they are harming India. I don’t think Narendra Modi knows what’s happening there. If your local BJP guy announces there that Kashmiri Pandits return has begun and I also heard some lady say that our spoiled children will also now understand, I don’t think that is how battles against jihad can be won. Kashmir jihad is a military problem. Tell them this. To kill these very jihadis that Pakistan created they launched Zarb-e-Azb and bombed them with airplanes. And what are you doing? You are trying to buy their loyalties in a way that slogans of Nara-e-Takbeer are being shouted inside the BJP office. Shame! This somehow becomes our responsibility to take it to the ideologues of the RSS.
Why do you call Lord Ram, who is lord of the entire universe, as Imam-e-Hind? Do you know what his politics is? His politics is this because when you quote Iqbal you try to appease India’s large Muslim section because they still see Iqbal in the historical process that has been, that we haven’t read in our schools and colleges, that Iqbal was responsible for giving Pakistan an intellectual and philosophical roots. He lectured across Europe to collect funds for the movement for Pakistan. But today there is a chair in Iqbal’s name in universities across India. They are using him because the Sangh boss is also quoting Iqbal’s poetry. We have heard that he is going to release a book in the coming days that they [Muslims] are a part of our Hindutva. In the world, a Wahabi Sunni can never be part of any society. Saudi Arabia, where Wahhabism began, has started to disown them. Egypt removed the elected chief of the Muslim Brotherhood and jailed him. In Pakistan, they also realise it and the education commission is working to remove jihadi extremism from schools and colleges. What are we doing? We are remembering and quoting those jihadi icons to please them. This is why I think we have a big responsibility to speak. Rakesh Pandita has become another figure but for his family, a wife has lost her partner, children their father, and father and mother their son. It’s a wound for us that for the last thirty years we can’t forget it. There is also a message being given again and again that Kashmir is not yours, that Kashmiri Hindus don’t belong here. The swastika that they [PAFF, a new militant outfit in Kashmir] have placed on the flag, can you connect it? You can connect it with Shaheen Bagh where this swastika was used with the F word and Indian society kept quiet. The jihadi groups adopting English are again trying to make their voice reach the Indian left-liberal seculars. Someone was saying that this man [Rakesh Pandita] was killed because he was a brahmin. Because they think that Shaheen Bagh, where Ambedkar’s name was misused, it is my and your duty to tell every corner of India what Ambedkar has written about Islamism. I don’t think anyone in BJP today would dare to say against Islamism what Baba Saheb Bhim Rao Ambedkar said. We are being called brahmins because it is justified to kill Rakesh because he was brahmanwadi. They are relating it to Shaheen Bagh as per the tool kit. Pakistan is also saying that you have killed lakhs of Kashmir Muslims so it is justified. Our agenda should be, number one: to put pressure on this government because we have chosen them, we have given a modest contribution to Narendra Modi’s victory. Many of us have worked hard, our contribution is modest but important in bringing Narendra Modi from Gujrat to Delhi. It is my right to demand from him but not by changing him or abusing him but by making him work. I say Narendra Modi’s shouldn’t be scrutinised every five years but every day. He should be told that Kashmir is a big challenge for India. In fact, Ladakh has been freed. I envy Ladakhis. They are full-fledged Indians now. The Dogras of Jammu and Kashmir’s Hindus remain in trouble. We should put forth this plea at every level, be it at the level of the RSS’s shakha, political, bureaucratic, even planning commission, anywhere because today in Jammu and Kashmir, your northwestern demographic border, which is a strategic term, ended the day the Kashmiri Pandits were massacred. If Sheikh Abdullah called us the fifth columnists, we were indeed that. We were informers of India. The tricolour is on our chests. I say I am an informer, an agent of India. What is the problem with that. That is why we were forced out and subjected to genocide. They thought the moment we remove these fifth columnists half of our Nizam-e-Mustafa will be achieved. Everyone else was preparing to give them the remaining 50 percent. Narsimha Rao said in Burkina Faso that ‘sky is the limit’; then Vajpaye was ready to give anything in the name of insaniyat, jamhooriyat, and Kashmiriyat; and then Manmohan Singh was ready to give away whatever was left in return for the Nobel Prize, he had kept his speech ready in the name of Kashmir; in 2014-2019 Narendra Modi government has also carried forward this system. But the entire system has changed after 2019. Now it is our right to demand from them that Jammu and Kashmir’s nationalists want their rights and that Jammu and Kashmir’s reorganisation should be taken to its logical conclusion. Jammu should be a separate state, for which the mutual collaboration until now should be continued and within Kashmir, the Panun Kashmir union territory should be created. Its strategic importance should be told to the strategic planners. Don’t shun any platforms where veterans and generals are present because it’s also on their minds. The Kashmir problem isn’t that politicians don’t have any idea of what India has on its hands in Kashmir, our army veterans, with due regards to them, are also of the same belief that Kashmir is not a pan-Islamic problem, it’s a political problem. Those people used to endorse that we have done our job and vacated our Khanyar and Haba Kadal pickets, now it’s up to you. When the GOC-in-C used to say that I have done my job and now it is up to you, do you know what he was trying to say? He was trying to tell the political masters in Delhi to please go and compromise and surrender and give them what they are asking for. We have kept that in check until now. When we claim that Kashmir is with India because of our activism, don’t think that we are very less, we are very important. Now the entire India is taking cognizance that Kashmiri Hindu is an important element in India’s resurgence. Now Dr Ajay Churungoo in Jaipur Dialogue… Sushil ji has gone wherever in the world he could, be it education institutions or any other. After that if Ajay ji wasnt there in his absence the program, he is remembered. Why? Because our vocabulary, grammar, touches all people. They say we didn’t know this. Now they say tell us more. Look at what happened in Bengal and how it was abandoned. And in this narrative war, BJP should realise that they have almost lost it. You took 38 percent votes in Bengal and seventy-seven seats from three but because your opponents declared that you lost, you conceded defeat. Those 77 MLAs are hiding in a hole and those who voted for them, their women are being stripped naked on the roads before them. Whose narrative is it. How can they surrender like this? Narendra Modi has been isolated and insulated from the ground. I think this tool kit and its narrative are the people who call Ram Imam-e-Hind in Kashmir and those in Delhi, the chief of RSS quotes Iqbal and says there were government’s shortcomings in Covid [reponse]. And mind it that he didn’t say governments in plural. He said government’s shortcomings. The day he said this, Narendra Modi’s adversaries got a boost that we aren’t saying this, the RSS chief is saying this. The RSS chief didn’t say that state governments also failed, he said one government failed. It is evident that he’s talking about the centre. So has Narendra Modi become an imposing, overwhelming figure for his own party and Parivar. If he has, then it is all the more important for us to see and protect and retain him while he is there. There is a big responsibility on us. I want to talk about Covid but first, Rakesh ji has today been added to the list of martyrs. We can avoid these sacrifices the day the Government of India stops using Kashmir Hindus as guinea pigs as their continued secular experimentations in Kashmir. The people who have decided on an Islamist identity, you can’t change then. By courting them and licking their feet, you are isolating the small minority like Lieutenant Fayyaz. Mind it you are pushing them away when people in your office first shout Nara-e-Takbeer and then the second slogan is the name of the BJP secretary there. If this is the politics of the section of BJP and the RSS that oversees Jammu and Kashmir, and their masters in the party who are important and want seniority in the government citing their long presence in Delhi, I think they are a threat to Narendra Modi’s position. It has always been my agenda to criticise everyone but Narendra Modi. There is no option to change the party. It took so many years to bring them here. We were talking about Bengal violence at some forum and they said that we will bring in a new party. It took forty years to bring this party which has still not become solid because they think Allama Iqbal is an icon. I have been to diplomatic parties with the Congress. Sometimes I would conduct those parties. I am just sharing it with you, there when the people from outside, from a Muslim country or from Central Asia, then India’s foreign minister or deputy foreign minister or some bureaucrat would recall [Mughal emperor] Babur and simultaneously quote his and Iqbal’s poetry. I would say that their politics is with Babur but he is dead and was never alive for Indians. He is an enemy of Hindus so this is no diplomacy. But if these people quote Iqbal then I think it is a dilution of RSS, Veer Savarkar, and Hedgewar’s polity…
We have to make a joint platform anyhow to take forward the process of Jammu and Kashmir’s transformation. There are voices that may be satisfied that Jammu and Kashmir should be a union territory but I think that we should stay away from that and our goal should be to take it to its logical conclusion. Jammu should be made a separate state and it is their right. Only then will they be free from Kashmir’s Islamist hegemony.
Thank you god bless you all
Tito: Lalit ji has actually raised questions about BJP in Kashmir. I think it’s appropriate that we have Vijay Raina ji with us who is a sarpanch there and senior leader with BJP. We understand we are all upset but since he was your colleague in the party and worked in Kashmir, I want you to respond to what Lalit ji has said. He is concerned about your welfare and safety. Vijay ji please unmute…
Lalit Ambardar: Give me one second till Vijay unmutes himself. I want to address him. Is he the councilor in Kashmir?
Tito: Sarpanch. Yes.
Lalit: He had spoken against Ram Madhav. Is he that Vijay ji? That is the concern we are showing. He is a very bold man.
[Difficulties reaching Vijay Raina continue]
Vijay Raina: I am sorry. Namaskar. I was on another call.
Rakesh ji was very close to me and when some meetings would happen discussions related to what should happen, we would always be tense because there are a lot of threats to us here…
When I heard about his killing yesterday — I am in Kashmir in Kulgam — halat kharab ho gayi (I was in a bad state) and haven’t slept all night. I still can’t believe that he has died but what can we do now? I am under a lot of stress. The way we have come here to serve the people, as a sarpanch I am working and have been given national awards. As Sushil ji was also saying that 5 August decision had raised our hopes, as Vajpayee ji would say that the darkness will lift and lamps will be lit, we thought our ache din (better days) in Jammu and Kashmir were coming for real, especially for Kashmir Pandits to return to their homes. But what has happened is that in the situation that has been created, the 100 or so councilors, sarpanches, and panches who came back to our birthland to work but the system after 5 August, we had hopes that there will be many changes and we are seeing a little in some respects but the grip to sustain and take it forward couldn’t happen. I think the grip has loosened and the situation is back to what it was in 1989 – 1990. I want to say all of us here are absolutely in the hands of the killers who can do whatever they want, whenever they want. Our administration and bureaucracy is unaware of what they need to do, there is no direction or guidance. We tell them but either they don’t understand or we are unable to convey. At the Centre and the state level there is a lot of talk, as when a wise man delivers a sermon some understand and some don’t. It is a one-way system where what we say reaches nowhere. It is as Lalit ji was saying that Prime Minister Modi has been insulated. I feel that what we say does not reach anywhere and the bureaucracy doesn’t know anything about the problem in Kashmir. All of us panch, sarpanch, and ULB members are falling victims. Ajay ji left us last year on 8 June and now Rakesh ji on 2 June. It is as Ikk Jutt chairperson was saying this will not stop in the future. But the way the administration from the centre is working here is a total failure. They don’t know what to do. We had a Navreh programme. I was part of that. It was said that our Kashmir brothers will come back. I think the situation is such that nobody knows what to say. They don’t know the ground. People on top don’t know what to do. The situation here is very bad. From a security point of view, I think nobody cares about our workers. We just go from one office to another for security but we are being told that we are trying. It is a difficult situation. Without going into much details I would just say that anyone from us tomorrow, the letter they released this time they had also released it at the time of Ajay ji and gave a clear message on what they intend to do. The state as well as the Central government has totally failed. They don’t know what to do. We are being used as cannon fodder. I think all panch, sarpanch, and ULB members will meet soon on this and take a collective decision on whether they want to work here. If this continues I don’t think we should work here. The experience of the past 2.5 years of working here, what we are seeing the behaviour, particularly of the administration towards our security, is indifferent. As I said earlier the killers can eliminate anyone at any time. I don’t think much can be done for our security. I think our team who are working on ground will go back to Jammu and earn a livelihood there. Afterall we haven’t died of starvation in the past thirty years. We will take that up again. I have a wife and three small kids. Our Rakesh ji had one child, a handicapped brother by birth, he was the support who was running the household. He had no source of income. He had made a house on loan, who will repay that now? So all of us who came here to work face the same situation and problems. We came with the trust that we have Narendra Modi’s backing and that we had nothing to worry about. But that is a hollow promise today. I think within a few days I will discuss with my colleagues and take action on our collective decision because we have to keep in mind our families and community. What happened to us thirty years ago, that should not happen to us again. I pay tributes to my dear friend Rakesh ji and wherever he is I pray for his soul’s peace.
Tito Ganju: Lalit ji wants to say something…
Lalit Ambardar: Mahra, I don’t want to demotivate you but let me tell you whatever little understanding I have. I follow jihad, many of us follow jihad conflicts globally, I tell you that the situation in Kashmir will get bad after September. In fact it has already begun. American and NATO force’s withdrawal from Afghanistan has begun, Pakistan’s confidence is high. My understanding is that Kashmir has to burn. There is a huge investment of jihad in Kashmir. Don’t think that Saudi Arabia has taken its hand back. Their father has come, the khalifa of Turkey. In Turkey, songs are being made on Kashmir with Kashmiri, Arabic and Turkish words. If you go to your neighbour he will be listening to those songs, they listen to Ertugrul’s songs. Please, your life is very important, not just for family but for me as well. After all, we are just a few people. It’s no martyrdom that we will get Padmashree or Veer Chakra. We are just figures, Ajay Pandita became a figure. Look at his father and daughter’s situation. Today as Rakesh [is killed], I was upset hearing that everything is finished for his sons. What martyrdom and what homeland. Protect Yourself. We should eat two rotis less. I need you but more than that my community and our country needs you and your passion. It is being wasted and exploited there [in Kashmir]. They are exploiting our situation by giving these jobs paying 15,000 to our youth. There is only one collective right for Kashmir today, tomorrow, hundred years later, and that is Panun Kashmir union territory. That is the only geographic protection for India. We can’t win their loyalty by licking their feet. I pray to Lord Shiva to give Rakesh ji’s soul salvation. Om Namah Shivay.
Tito Ganju: Thank you Vijay ji…
We all heard from Vijay what is the situation there. The elevated members who are in the government what is happening to their candidates. We have with us Rakesh Handoo ji.
When Mahesh ji was talking he said that Kashmiri Pandits have been accused of not fighting back and he gave a good response to it himself but Rakesh ji is someone who was involved in anti-insurgency I would request Rakesh ji to express his opinions and tributes.
Rakesh Handoo: First of all let me thank you. There are very senior people in the panel. I want to say Namaste to them. Today I am very saddened. Firstly, I agree with every word of Lalit ji. I have [maintained] since the first day when people from here went there, they were used. When the locals in Kashmir are so afraid that they are boycotting the elections, our people from here went there to fight the elections and for what purpose, to fix taps and build roads? Have they forgotten 19 January 1990? Today, they are begging for security. This is what has been done to us 31 years later. I want to take you all a little back in time. As Ganjii saab said there is a blot on us that we ran for our lives from Kashmir. I remember that when the exodus began in 1990, people were thronging Gita Bhavan and then to Muthi, Mishriwala, and Nagrota camps. I would go there and see the situation of the people. We had a zeal in us. Thirty years ago I was a young man of about 25 years old, today I am 55. I had similarly zealous people who wanted to do something and fight and not let Kashmir go easily. At that time I had known the RSS chief [in Jammu] Indresh Kumar. Fortunately or unfortunately I had an ancestral home in Raghunath Bazar so I knew him closely. I asked him for weapons to go back and fight jihadis. But even then there were attempts to exploit us. Whichever Hindu organisation I had gone to with my team didn’t support us. Finally security forces approached us and we went there during [Governor] Jagmohan’s time. I will soon talk about the role played by Kashmiri Pandits in the anti-insurgency. Unfortunately, Jagmohan was removed and the situation changed. Now I will give you a second example: some time back, you all must know, intelligence created an Ikhwan through Kuka Parray, who was a terrorist himself. What happened to him? Farooq Abdullah ran a campaign against him. The Congress was at the Centre. He was made to give up arms. What happened to him? He was killed outside his home in a land blast. There is a role of government and jihadis there. I was opposed since the first day to our people going there. We are ourselves in migration, what do we have to do with building roads and pools there. I am saying this again, I will soon talk in a video about what we have done there in counterinsurgency. I had given a Tribute to Jagmohan, we say that he was a [saviour] of Kashmiri Pandits. There are so many people in this forum who are wiser than me, who have read books and are scholars and doctors. I want to also ask them why we call Jagmohan a survivor. If we go to Kashmir, there people say he was instrumental in our migration. Nobody knows the reality, what Jagmohan was doing on the ground and what plans he had. Anyway. It was the biggest blunder in the history of Kashmir when he was removed [as Governor]. If he had stayed he would have uprooted things there and they would not have gotten encouragement and today’s situation would not have been this bad. Third, I want to pay tributes to Rakesh ji and before that Ajay Pandita ji but do we know that today we are talking about them but there are two more Hindus who were killed who had no political background so nobody is taking their name. One of them was Akash Mehra ji who has a famous Hindu dhaba across from Burn Hall school. His son was killed because he had gotten a domicile certificate. After that Satpal Nishcal who used to run a jewellery shop was killed. Nobody spoke about them. Their [militant’s] simple clear mission is that Kashmiri Hindus and Pandits shouldn’t come back and they must be discouraged. Today I was speaking to some people in Kashmir about Rakesh Pandit ji. The new move is to character assassinate even Ajay Pandita like in the 1990s when Tika Lal ji and so many others were killed. At that time there was just one label that they are informers because of which we have killed them. Even today the situation is the same. Whoever is killed there, it is said that they were of poor character. When they have security and yet they were trapped should be investigated by the CBI. How were they called there without their PSOs. This is absolutely a trap. I will give you an example when in 2008 I contested the election I used to get phone calls asking me to come because they wanted to talk but on the condition that there should be no bodyguard or security forces person the reason being that they were trying to trap me. They would say that if you come here with security, we will be killed after you leave. We would be spotted here, you can go to Jammu tomorrow. It is a big nexus there. You must have heard audio rattey rattey azadi. It has become a business there. Go to the ground. I am a regular visitor to Kashmir. The ground reality is very different in Kashmir that you can’t see from Jammu, Delhi, or America. The ground reality is that it has become a business. The same people who give shelter also inform on them and get them killed. We need to understand this. Third thing, there is one and only solution that is a separate homeland, where we live and protect ourselves with arms, we should be given training. It is important to make an Israel there [in Kashmir]. There is no second option for the Government of India. I am saying this freely today from my experience. It doesn’t matter how much you say come on tv debates we will have to get up ourselves. There is a saying that beggars can’t be choosers. Until the time we don’t get up ourselves and stop licking their feet, till then we can’t do anything. In 2008 a political party was formed by Kashmiri Pandits because we want our political voice. Even if we have only 70,000 votes, can we not secure at least one seat from Habba Kadal? In elections we have twenty candidates of ours for one seat. We should think about this and what is our future strategy. My belief is that till we dont get up for ourselves, no one will listen to us. This political exploitation has been going on for 31 years, it will go on in future as well. Many thanks to Ganju sahab who has given me the opportunity to speak openly. Ganju saab has been asking about what happened in the 1990s. I will soon remove this blot from Kashmiri society and tell everyone what role we have played in anti insurgency. I am saying this again till Kashmiri Pandits are not involved there can be no solution to Kashmir issue. You can’t decide Kashmir policy in Delhi. I will give you one more example. When I was in Kashmir as a member of Hindu Samiti, there were small issues of migrant certificates. It made me laugh when I used to visit ministers who would ask me about whose department is it when I would submit a memorandum. This was our minister, and then there were IAS officers under them. When we went to them, they did not know the meaning of Article 370. It is surprising that sweets were distributed all over India when Modi removed Article 370. But what did Modi do after that? Kashmiri politicians have sold Article 370 till date saying that your majority will be made into a minority. We dance over it that a lion has come who removed 370 but what happened then? Today our Kashmir Pandits have to stand in queue and find our rights, our state subject has no value anymore. This has happened to us. What politics has been played through the backdoor, that you all know but unfortunately nobody speaks about. This is why without taking much time I implore you all to brainstorm on this and that Panun Kashmir is the only solution. Not only Panun Kashmir we have to wake up, we have to get up and we need to have arms. There is nothing wrong with this. We are not doing militancy there, we don’t have to kill anyone. But we have a right in democracy if someone comes to kill us we can protect ourselves in self defence. Today if our Ajay ji and Rakesh ji were killed. If the Government of India and BJP sent our people there to local body elections can they not be given arms training? At least then they can protect themselves. I was listening to [Vijay Raina], he is so afraid that in two days he will decide if he has to come back to Jammu. Why are they not equipped? At least they can protect themselves. I don’t want to say more than this…
Tito Ganju: Many thanks Rakesh ji…
Tito Ganju: With us is Ajay Khosa ji.
Ajay Khosa: Namaskar. Before I begin I want to give my tributes to Rakesh ji who was mercilessly killed in Kashmir Valley yesterday. This is the time to assess why this keeps happening in Kashmir and outside, such as West Bengal, Kerala, and many parts of Uttar Pradesh. There was a message from Aligarh where marriages are stopped because of Ramzan. Why is this happening again and again. Why is the central government acting a mute spectator? But before that we need to understand one thing, the political process that was started in Kashmir at small levels, in which sarpanch and corporators elections were held, what is the meaning of taking Kashmiri Pandits there? Many have rightly said that Kashmir’s natives, who today are considered to be Muslims, have refused to fight elections. But keeping sacrifice and dedication in mind, they have sent Kashmiri Pandits from Jammu like sheep to Kashmir. The result of which Vijay Raina ji spoke about is before us. Many panch, sarpanch, corporators are saying that we have been used as sacrificial lambs, scapegoats, as guinea pigs inside Kashmir Valley to perfect a political process that the BJP wanted to experiment in Kashmir. To complete that experimental process, Kashmiri Pandits who have been in exile for the last thirty years were taken there on various pretexts. Some didn’t have jobs, some for power, some had compulsions. On those pretexts they were dragged from Jammu to the Kashmir Valley so that they help BJP complete the political process. The result is that in the last three years one by one members of the minority Hindu community were killed and we keep offering tributes. We were reduced to simply offering condolences on a regular basis… The genocide is continuing in Kashmir. Till 1990s terrorists and Islamic jihadis committed genocide. After 1990s the Government of India is committing this genocide. They deliberately, despite knowing everything, took a handful of Kashmiri Pandits to Kashmir so that they would be killed. They have been pleading for security but it isn’t being given to them. What is the reason that everyone has security in Kashmir, even police and their SHOs have security, but these people who are there to perfect and complete the process that is a dream of Narendra Modi ji, are not being given security. Someone told me security is notional. I told them back that it is not notional and that we have to go beyond it. You don’t find terrorists in open fields in Kashmir, they are in the homes of the people. The Government of India has to accept that they shelter in people’s homes. So terrorists and Islamic jihadis are not stand-alone [inaudible words]. They are in a comfort zone in Kashmir, fighting their war against India. You are protecting those who are subverting the political and democratic process while those who are perfecting it are being killed. What democratic process is this? In the last three years you have forcibly taken those who haven’t gone there in the last thirty years, to complete the process. For the locals, they know the democratic process can never be complete there. This is the fate of the flagship project of democratic process under the 73rd and 74th amendments of the constitution, and it has miserably failed not only in Kashmir valley but in Jammu as well because there they need funds etc, thats a separate issue. I am not ready to accept Narendra Modi as my prime minister if he is not moved to tears listening to Vijay Raina ji’s plight because he stepped into the Kashmir Valley on Modi’s directions and not on directives of Mohan Bhagwat or the RSS. Don’t blame the RSS for all this. Lalit ji is trying to exempt the prime minister of this country from this mess. I didn’t elect Mohan Bhagwat as prime minister of this country, I elected Narendra Modi and his cabinet as the governing head of this country. It is they who are responsible for it. For how long will we beat around the bush. If he is the prime minister he has to take a call, his heart has to bleed for what is happening inside the Kashmir Valley, those who are dying. It is not about the once-in-a-year killings, it is about the death of the living beings who trusted them [BJP] and returned to Kashmir 30 years later to fulfill Narendra Modi’s dreams. They are being culled like sheep. Rakesh Handoo said an important thing that nobody is talking about, that after every killing there is one or the other accusation being made that this person was dealing with drugs, he had an immoral character. What nonsense! If you want to kill someone just kill them, why are you accusing them? I will go a little further and say that your [Muslim] society is one in which people marry their own cousin sisters. Who are you calling immoral? If you want to kill someone, first kill them. There is so much immorality in Kashmir today that you can’t even imagine. This was one part of my argument. I want to be brief about my second part… India has lost Kashmir. India lost the jihad in 1947. The genocide is not a process of today, it is going on since Jinnah announced the Direct Action. India’s partition is a living example of this fact that Hindus as a nation and as a state have lost this war. The problem is neither small nor is its solution in fixing the bureaucracy alone. It’s not that easy. We are in a war which we have already lost in 1947 and now we are trying to recover it but there is no plan for it. The bureaucracy, political establishment, the Congress and the BJP even, all have one track vision. If Ram is Imam-e-Hind, who am I? If Hindu is incomplete without Muslims and Islam, it is better if a Hindu becomes a Muslim. Which has been happening since last 700 years. Let’s all get converted, there is no problem. Instead of Hindu Rashtra we will have a Muslim Rashtra. Its not about Hindu-Muslim but slavery of a relgion. If this is how it is then we should get it done in one go. We are fighting a losing war, we have to understand this fact. We have completely pushed ourselves to the wall. 1947 was a rehearsal, 1990 was a rehearsal, in coming years you will see how this rehearsal comes out on a canvas. It’s just a matter of time. We are fighting a war against time. If Hindu still don’t understand, nothing is going to save us…
I pay tribute to Rakeshi ji who was killed mercilessly…
Tito Ganju: Many thank Ajay ji. You have said we have lost the war, I think our mere existence is proof that we have not lost the war. Maybe some battles but not the war.
Moving ahead we have with us Ramesh Manvati ji, a senior leader of Panun Kashmir.
Ramesh Manwati: Ajay ji has said many things full of notions, concern, and our plight. [inauduible] We are in the process of fighting a war that is so tough, against a system that is mute and dumb and there is a policy and intellectual paralysis. We should rewind our history back to at least … the 1930s. In India we have this common notion that Sheikh Abdullah is the leader of Kashmir. He was tall in height and proved himself a popular leader of Kashmir but as per my understanding and little study as a student of history and literature of Kashmir, he was the most cunning and communal leader that the Valley has produced in recent history. He was supported by money of Indian leaders who were at the helm of affairs at that point of time and one among them was, not many have talked about this aspect of the connection between India and Kashmir, that is Sheikh Mohammad Abdullah’s connection with Maulana Abul Kalam Azad, who was the first education minister of this country. Many people will be knowing that there was a separate contact between Maulana Abul Kalam Azad and Sheikh Mohammad Abdullah… We need to go into the correspondence between Sheikh Mohammad Abdullah and Maulana Abul Kalam Azad. What conspired between the two at least I have not come across in any public correspondence between the two leaders (sic). In the 1930s when the Reading Room Party was in existence there was a cleric from Bengal who was also attending the meetings of this Reading Room Party in Fateh Kadal. It was all done in hiding from the administration, his name was Azad Subhani. He was a Muslim cleric from a mosque in Bengal. Somehow, he had come to Kashmir and also gotten an entry in Reading Room Party party activities… [inaudible] they were reaching out to party activists including Sheikh Mohammad Abdullah and all other friends to demand azadi not just against Maharaja. Your plan should be to demand azadi from the rest of the forces that you are fighting. Somehow it got leaked, the intelligence of the Maharaja administration got a whiff of something cooking inside but before they could catch hold of him he [Subhani] ran away. From that time till date, Indian leaders, policy makers, and intellectual class have not been able to understand the depth of the realities of Kashmir, the psyche of Muslims of Valley. We have assembled here to pay homage to one of our brothers Shri Rakesh Pandita ji…. Why was Ajay Pandita ji, Rakesh, the son of Krishna Dhaba’s owner, security forces killed, because they symbolise the idea of India in Kashmir. That has been the target since the 1930s when Sheikh Mohammad Abdullah successfully bullied Indian leaders. It continues till now. Unfortunately our intellectual class, policy makers that include politicians as well as non-politicians, and our media don’t understand the situation or its depth or refuse to understand what exactly is happening for a variety of reasons. That includes the present BJP government. As rightly said by Sushil ji earlier that the mandate to this present dispensation to [inaudible], one was of course Ram Janmabhoomi done and come to fruition. The second was the certain aspects of Muslims [inaudible] and the third was to settle Kashmir. They have been able to neutralize, not remove, Article 370 and have removed Article 35a but while they were taking a bold step, they committed a bog blinder on the very same day when they committed themselves in public domain that they are giving statehood back to Kashmir. When you have taken action because this problem has lasted from the last so many years and Kashmiri Pandits have been put to a genocide, a community with a 5,000 year old history, who are the majority community in the Valley reduced to minority as of now. They were subjected to [inaudibile] before 1947, right from the advent to Islam till the 1990s and subsequently. Having admitted community has suffered genocide… The problem doesn’t exist in any other state of the county. We have not taken such a drastic step in any other part of the country. Here is a problem and issue that is not addressed, we have to see whether statehood can be restored. That was first mistake they did while correcting a historic wrong. Similarly our policy makers, irrespective of present or previous dispensations because we have seen right from 47 [inaudible] …. now terrorism, they have been defining it as no religion. It has a big religion only color one can see it is green in color wherever you see. Please open your eyes and ears and intellect. It has a particular color that is green. Our intellectual class keeps on harping on adopting a middle path. They also influence our present government. They have been influencing previous governments. One of them is a very senior retired army officer, he has served in Kashmir, he is also in an educational institution at a very senior level. Once I was attending a conference on terrorism in Delhi and Lalit ji was anchoring that. In the question and answer session, there were about 30-40 policy makers in the seminar, who had come to understand terrorism. But the policy maker suggested that terrorism has no religion and that we should adopt a middle path. I raised my hand and said I am not sure if you are right or not, to me terrorism has a very prominent color and we should not miss that. And second, you said that the middle path in tackling terrorism. Sushil ji said some NSA had said that India is the only country that fights terrorism democratically and now you are saying middle path. I can interpret it to say that you are telling the hardcore terrorist to pick up a gun but not use it. He was furious and said the he didn’t mean to say that… This thinking has been going on around in our policy makers, we have to keep this in mind. What could be the possible way forward? I think we have to address it from three angles. As far as Panun Kashmir is concerned, it is India’s only reflection in Kashmir. How can that be made possible? We have to see what happened in Bengal. Today Panun Kashmir, Kashmiri Pandits and Hindus, and people from Jammu who are witnessing demographic changes. I am very happy some people in Jammu are taking a very active part in fight against such happenings. We have Ankur Sharma, his voice needs to be strengthened. Three things we have to focus on. One, how to influence the intellectual class, the policy makers within the country that includes political and nonpolitical leadership that influences the policy making that the government acts on. We have to understand the Indian government doesn’t function in isolation, it functions on certain parameters dictated by some policy that may be generated. How durable that policy is is a question mark. But how can we influence the policy making so that the government acts on that and of course I don’t think we have a better candidate than Modi to act on this. We need to keep the pressure on the government as well as policy makers within and outside the government. Second, the role of the media. The media has been playing a role right from earlier times. The erstwhile state of Jammu, Kashmir, and Ladakh was always projected by the media as only Kashmir exists. Jammu existed for some time because main Jammu was attached to the state. Ladakh didn’t exist at all. It is now, since 2019 that we see Ladakh getting prominence here and there but still I find that when you talk of reorganisation of J-K as such, Kashmir still becomes the predominant voice in the media. Jammu again doesn’t get that prominence as it should get. And Ladakh since it has gone its separate way they get proper attention. But the Jammu voice is not being projected in the manner that it should be projected and for that the media has a role. And how our activism can influence this media? Third, of course, is the general public in the country. The general public has, it has been said earlier, when Modi came to power for the first time in 2014, Kashmir Pandits did play an important role in creating opinion across the country. Now today I think we as a nationalist people supported by and in cohesion with other nationalist voices have to once again reach out to the general masses of the country so we create a dent in the overall policy. That is how genocide of not only Kashmir Pandits but the genocides happening across the country can be addressed. Somebody has previously said that not only one Kashmir exists in India, there are many Kashmir like situations existing in India. West Bengal is one example. In a small village in Uttar Pradesh where 80 percent of the population is Muslims and 20 percent is Hindus, they have dictated that no wedding will take place, no marriage procession will pass through this, no temple will exist. Anybody going for marriage has to take permission. You have to take permission for Hindu activities. Our battle is huge. I urge my younger friends not to get disheartened. We have a long fight to go. As they say men may come and go but we must go on forever till our ultimate objective of reaching back to our homeland in Panun Kashmir is achieved and giving justice to Hindus across the county who are facing genocide one way or the other. I am not sure if anyone other than a Kashmir Pandit can address this issue. That is my belief.
God bless and Thank you. And once again my heartfelt tribute to the brother we lost yesterday and to all security forces being martyred day in and day out for the sake of India in Kashmir. I reiterate that India’s only reflection in Kashmir is Panun Kashmir.
Tito Ganju: Thank you.
Shailendra ji. You would want to pay your tribute to Rakesh Pandita ji. After that a pertinent question for you. Junaid Azam Mattu tweets that a very statesman-like and laudable statement by J-K BJP General Secretary Ashok Kaul sahab saying that killing of Rakesh Pandita was the killing of a political figure and shouldn’t be attributed with ethnic factors.
Shailendra Aima: I had spoken to you earlier in the day, when I had said that I would probably not be able to speak. The reason is that I am really agitated, not so much for what the jihad is doing or the Government of India is doing but I am agitated for what I am doing or I am unable to do. I will speak in Hindi, English restricts my narrative.
First, when I say what we are doing, I believe that we are unable to convey to this country and its Hindu that the Government of India and the political establishment that we elect are running this country by pushing us to the margins.The Hindu is important to guard their votes because they, the government and political parties, will not get votes from other than Hindus. They have seen in the last 7-8 years that whenever they had to come forward and make a design for the nation, they only had two parameters: development and development. They have no other parameter. Sab ka vikas sab ka sath (Development for all, together). They wanted the support of even those who want to break this country. Those who want a book in one hand and a computer in the other. They are working on that. It has been thirty years since our displacement. There is a lot of talk that we will return soon. It’s not just today but since Narsimha Rao’s times. There was such talk during Vajpayee ji’s time as well. Advani ji was going to bring in a white paper. Where is that? I don’t expect anything from Congress because I believe that the Congress is meant for a political system which is secular and keeps majority Hindus at the margins of any developmental initiative. And since my birth I have been affiliated with the Sangh. I was born through a mother and father who gave up their entire lives to the mission of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh. My father became the pracharak in 1947 and my mother was looking after the Jammu chapter of the women’s wing. She was running a student wing in 1947. The Praja Parishad movement was born in my home. So I know Sangh very well. We have given our lives for Sangh. We were told that the Sangh is taking forward the vision of a Hindu Rashtra. That Sangh, however, is finished when its head, honorable, whoever he is, I don’t want to take his name. It disgusts me. I feel bad. I feel ashamed on my self that my family, my genes, my whole being, was influenced by the Sangh which has today accepted defeat and says Hindutva is incomplete without Islam. And this is the guiding principle of the BJP and Sangh’s policies. Why are they saying this? Because they are defeated. They are a defeated lot. Sangh is a defeated psyche that thinks they can’t fight jihad in any manner. They want to win over jihad through hearts and minds. The Indian military runs a program in Kashmir: WHAM, the winning of hearts and minds. The army is to conquer territories and fight a war, the army is not to fight the hearts and minds. When the army will start fighting for hearts and minds, it will not kill. When you don’t catch or kill the enemy, when you try to assuage the enemy, make the enemy happy, then you succumb. This is the current situation. The Indian establishment is incapacitated. That is why people like Rakesh Pandita are prepared just to attempt to get a Budshah to emerge in their jihadi society, upon whose mercy the society will give Kashmiri Hindu space to live. This is the defeated mentality. They are begging the enemies of India to provide them some space in Kashmir. Tito ji this is India’s situation. India is being ruled by people whole vision is that Hindus are incomplete without Islam. What Hindu Rashtra had they promised us? What betrayal were they playing with my parents, with me and with our society when their vision of a Hindu Rashtra is that it is incomplete without Islam. What is Islam, it is based on milat (nation), jihad; Islam is not pluralistic. So when you compromise with an Islam that wants to make you Islamic by all means and if you don’t, your killing is justified. Then you are preparing to adopt Islam. If the only difference between Muslims and Hindus is of prayers and both gods are equal, then I should become a Mulsim! Let Modi ji become a Muslim! Mohan Bhagwat become a Muslim! Become a Muslim!! They have already mentally become Muslims. Understand this. I am speaking openly and challenging the Sangh which is betraying Hindus. They prepare their workers to go to Kashmir and fight elections, settle down there and win their hearts, through which a Budshah would emerge who would let you live for a few years before forcing another exodus. The RSS, BJP, Indian State has no vision other than this. They made one mistake. They experimented with removing Article 370. After doing that they have an internal paralysis, that we remove Article 370 but can’t go beyond reorganisation. We don’t know what will happen. So they are two conflicting sentiments and two conflicting polarities within RSS and this. One old Sangh and BJP, the one which is called the Bharatiya Jan Sangh, whose founder was one person, I can say with authority, professor Balraj Madhok. It was my father and Balraj Mahdok who convinced Shyama Prasad Mukherji to start a Hindu based political forum against the Congress policies. I can say with authenticity but the way Congress policies have dominated, some have been killed, some have disappeared. Shyama Prasad Mukherji’s sacrifice was not investigated. 13 years, including the current tenure, they have been in power, has any investigation been done? We all know what kind of leadership the Congress has, how strong cases are against them, is anyone in jail? So it is a compromise. In India there was the creation of a deep state before 1947, under whose influence all political organizations are. Until you don’t break this deep state, no change will come in India. You remove 370, 5 August 2019, after that the clock will be stopped and not allowed to move forward because deep state then dominates you. And that deep state has only one purpose: how to keep India subservient to the powers that be in the world, who want to bring about modern world order… It is a new imperialism being imposed on you through ideas of modern world order. Will the deep state allow the Hindus a state? So they have incapacitated, occupied, and controlled the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh and the Bharatiya Janata Party as well. To reverse this takeover we have to break this deep state. We had given them guidance so far and could tell them J-K had to be reorganised into four parts, they did two; we said to make a Union Territory, which they did but after that the deep state stopped them. I know some people in the BJP who are restless and angry that they are not allowing them to proceed. But unfortunately, some people in the Prime Minister’s Office have created a paralysis. They are the people of Farooq Abdullah, Mufti Syed, who have occupied the PMO because they are basically deep state people. Tito ji, till the time the deep state is not destroyed, no solution will emerge for India. We will remain trapped in corona, development initiatives, building roads, development and progress taking all onboard will continue, and the Indian State will slowly and gradually disintegrate as it marginalises Hindus. If there is anything that unites Hindus, it is the Hindu Rashtra. There are attempts to break it so that the neo-liberal lobbies representing the deep state will never let India become a strong nation, an Asian giant. And no matter what vision you have for India, it won’t become an Asian giant until it is a Hindu Rashtra. Secularism is your bete noire. You have to be Hindu Rashtra, no vision will be fulfilled till you are. Think, what future are you giving to the children of India? Breaking the country by wearing the veil of a secular India or Hindu Rashtra that unites. Think about this.
Tito Ganju: Many thanks, Shailendra ji. We move on to Dr Ajay Churungoo ji for your concluding remarks.
I had mentioned Ashok Kaul’s tweet. He says his killing was political, and shouldn’t be linked to ethnic factors. The PDP spokesperson has also made similar remarks. Isn’t this denial of genocide?
Ajay Churungoo: First, all those who came here presented their tributes. On behalf of Panun Kashmir and Kashmiri Hindu society I prevent tribute to the deceased soul.
I have heard intellectually recharging and thought provoking thoughts so far.
First, I want to say that when on 5 August 2019 Jammu and Kashmir state was reorganised by neutralising Article 370 and abrogating 35a, I had said two things. The day Kashmiri Hindus were removed from Kashmir in 1990, the J-K state died and gradually its reorganisation process started. There was a time when it was understood that India had no option but to divide J-K. When I say this I don’t say that I had doubts when in 1990 we kept a vision document and began our work. We were certain even then. But some stages had to be crossed. Our establishment and the thought in the strategic framework, the way it is entangled and you remove it in stages. We were thinking we need to work stage wise on multiple fronts towards this. Ajay Pandita’s murder validates that the alternatives in front of the BJP are no longer viable. It is mandatory, not just from our vision but from the prism if this nation’s integrity is to be saved. In the 1990s we were told that the first resolution you passed in the Panun Kashmir organisation was calling for the removal of Article 370. From that time we kept saying this, even at a time when BJP wouldn’t talk of 370 because they thought it to be apolitical. The state has been reorganised, Article 370 annulled, now the Govenrment of India and the nation has no option but to acknowledge that Kashmir Pandits were subjected to a genocide and reverse it. It is an existential necessity for the entire Hindu Rashtra. If the massacre in Kashmir is not reversed, the Hindu genocide will continue all across the country. For Hindu survival it is a critical necessity. There is an attempt to see how far it can be postponed. What happened in Bengal was similar violence, it was not post-poll violence.
They [BJP] want to back down the way congress did. This is why I have no doubts that the process of dialectics right now is in that direction. We are at a stage when Modi ji’s buffers are gradually eroding. Those who are seeing him as an option to India’s internal mess made over the years, thought if Modi is making a compromise, he is doing so because he is slowly making space, that there is a strategic and tactical thinking behind it. Even if we didn’t understand it, we would convince ourselves that Modi is with the nation, Hindus, our leader, he wouldn’t let that happen. We would convince ourselves that there would be a thinking behind it all. But that buffer is ending. Things that we said were strategic imperatives, today we doubt its basic content. Now we think all formulations are subversion of national polity. We are going in that direction. I think there are three sections of Hindus, one is slave but who think they are free, then there are slave drivers who run the slaves, and then there are Hindus like you and me who are free, who understand this hypocrisy, internal as well as external. People like you and me are independent citizens of this county because we understand the slavery system is still in place and we are working to break it. We have a big responsibility. We have to remove whatever way this country has been enslaved since independence. The responsibility doesn’t end at Panun Kashmir Union Territory because it will not be given to us till the nation’s Hindu is enslaved. Panun Kashmir’s political demand has strategic, tactical as well as ideological value but not just for Kashmiri Hindu but the entire Hindu society. If you look in that respect you will understand one thing. Who are the slave drives, we are them. We do things according to their masters. Slave divers are victim collaborators. (sic) many a times we say 1000 year Hindu genocide is conspiracy to end the Hindu civilisation. It is slowly growing in mainland India and this 1000 year old genocidal war is still not in our discussion because we have not recognised it as a continuous battle that has been going on in some form. It has an ideological manifestation which is not hidden in this genocidal war. what is happening is the dangerous Hindu collaborators are in Congress, BJP, and even Sangh.
There are slave drivers in this country. You have been introduced to another group of slave drives. The Sangh’s leadership is functioning like a slave driver and a kind of critical time when Hindu society will be paralysed. This is a challenge.
The slave drivers I talk about, in BJP and Sangh, who used to think that somehow Kashmiri Pandits should be settled in Kashmir not to return Hindu civilisation there or the Indian nation, not even to reverse ethnic cleansing but because the Kahsmiri Muslim is being alienated. And what they are saying to the outside world is also causing more problems. The highest levels of the Government of India, our intelligence chiefs, bureaucracy, ponder how to stop us from going out. They want us to be taken back somehow. But our demand to make Panun Kashmir, to reverse the genocide by making a law and punishing the perpetrators and then create a situation where society has a place with constitution position to deide their own future for itself is also seen as creating problems for the Muslims and more alienation. So there should be a symbolic and cosmetic return. And the world must be told that those who wanted to go back did and those who didn’t what can we do. They also said that we will also make use of them if they return. A senior Sangh member who was promoted to the Akhil Bharatiya level, once went to a camp and told us that you will have to sacrifice and live with Muslims, in their system, in Islamsied polity. If you go there it will be the nation’s work. You will have to give a sacrifice. What is behind this thought? They told Kashmir Hindu you have to live and befriend Kashmir Muslim and bring him to favour the nation, not by fighting and contest or saying that you are Islamising polity and bringing jihad and that is wrong. It will become an important interface. Simultaneously, tomorrow you can be our eyes and ears, our mukhbirs. That is your purpose. A periodical thought that Kashmir Pandit will live with Muslims and also inform on them. This is also the perspective behind Kashmiri Hindus being used in low voting situations. People there are boycotting. But we will field some people who will win and become our agents. They didn’t think that mere contesting elections was a declaration of enmity for Muslims. A situation where Muslim establishment said boycott elections and Kashmiri Pandit break that and then befriend them. This is the thinking. They are using us for this. The jihad that has made inroads in Kashmir, somehow we should get a chance to do drama and ignore it for some more time. They want to postpone the conflict. The realisation that they are already at war they want the Kashmiri Pandit to play a role so that illusion continues for some more time. So why would they acknowledge genocide, formulate a law. They say do both, fight Muslims and make friends with them too. There have been just a few selective killings in the past years but the message is very eloquent, the Kashmiri Islamists clearly understand the dimensions. The Government of India thinks it is doing a wonderful job by keeping their own people hostage and calling it a strategy. Inspiring your people to befriend anti-nationals. Don’t warn the nation, this is a viciousness of the subversive process that gripped the national imagination. This is an illusion and if you don’t subscribe to it, it will all break. All you have to do is say what you see. You are a victim, speak the truth. I say that the victim can build a civilian if they speak the truth. Your struggle isn’t to pick arms but to show the mirror, even to Muslims those who have occupied our government and enslaved Hindus. This is your role. We wanted no more Hindu should leave their homes. We attempted to say this isn’t attack on us but the beginning of a ferocious Islamist invasion they thought we were grinding our own agenda. Look at Bengal and Kerala, it is also genicide. In the Hindu society there are multiple genocide processes emerging. Kashmir Pandits understand because you have gone through it. As a victim we have to tell the truth. preserve the capacity to tell the truth. In the end, I say that the entire democratic world is facing this problem, not just India. Which is why in the coming times the battlelines will deepen and become more intense. And the entire country’s Hindu has to stand up. If they acknowledged that this Indian government is against the Indian civilisation, they have to find a way to save their nation. We have to play a critical role in that because we are at a point where Subhash Chandra Bose was when he realised that the Congress couldn’t free India. When he understood being president of the Congress or not has no value. The moment he reached this thought, a new thought emerged that compelled British to leave and freed India. The time has come for the entire Hindu society. It’s another matter that we understood this 30 years ago. We should have figured it out 60 years ago. Our thought process was also like that of the ordinary Hindu. 30 years ago when we realised this and attempted to say it. We repeatedly said that we wouldn’t be able to stop the spillover of jihad because in the democratic system suicide is a culture. The person who wants to commit suicide out of an insane mind (sic) how can you save them. The poison has spread and now this is being discussed across. Social media makes it visible but we are at the cusp of history where Hindu have to decide that Islamic expansion fails and that the government establishment for his welfare is actually for his enslavement. We don’t have to be disappointed as there is nothing new for us, one of our brothers fell prey to terrorists it shouldn’t have happened. In the coming times we have to tell such brothers who go there and take part in the political process and accept jobs. How right is that and what has it given you. Understanding this is difficult, that a nation is destroying itself. It has not happened anywhere in the world. Difficult to understand that an organisation that vows by Hindu supremacy is destroying Hindus. It’s very unique and surprising. Many say it’s paradoxical and that it can’t happen but this is the truth. Not because we have an ego but because we don’t want this country’s Hindu to suffer. The genocide with Hindus, accept it and make a law and punish and think about reversal of genocide. This is what Panun Kashmir is about. It is saddening but not disappointing. What we had to repeatedly state before is now being understood at the first mention. So that is indicative of a change.